[MUSIC PLAYING]

Good evening. Welcome to the Church History Library's Men and Women of Faith lecture series. Tonight's lecture is entitled "Amy Brown Lyman's Mission in Europe: Ministering to the Saints Amid the Gathering Storm," presented by David R. Hall. I'm April Williamsen. I'm in charge of public programming for the Church History Library, and I'm glad to see all of you here this evening. Our next upcoming lecture's on September 12th, and I can't believe we're talking about September already. The lecture's entitled "Bread, Water, Oil, and Cloth-- Religious Objects, Mormon Women, and Ritual," presented by Chris Wright. And then in October we have "Bathsheba W. Smith-- Woman of Great Faith," presented by Heidi Swinton. We are so pleased to be able to hold these lectures here in this historic assembly hall. I'd like to share a few more interesting facts about the assembly hall, and some of the changes that have taken place in the different remodeling projects over the years. Now, when the building was completed in 1880, gaslights were used to illuminate the interior, making it possible to hold meetings in the evenings. By day, the large windows, on both the upper and the lower levels, allowed sufficient light to enter. In 1891 the clear glass windows were replaced by 36 stained glass windows. The window treatments have changed several times over the years, too, from bare windows to louvered shutters, to draperies, and to the current wooden shutters. Now, many people notice the circular glass windows above the four entrances, with the Star of David inset. Because 1880, the year that the building was completed, was designated as a Jubilee year, being the 50th anniversary of the organization of the Church, the builders incorporated the Star of David in the structure, reminiscent of the Israelite Jubilee celebrations in the Old Testament. As was the custom in the Old Testament times, debts were forgiven and a great Jubilee celebration was held. Now, you need to notice the newell posts at the tops of the stairways. They are composed of seven rings, forming a beehive, representing the industry of the Saints. The number seven represents fullness or completeness. There were seven days in the creation process. If you look closely at the top of the keystones on the arches on the four sides of the interior of the building, right up here, back there, and over here, and behind the organ, which is a little difficult to see, you will notice that there's a beehive on top of the keystone, also. The keystone itself is symbolic of Jesus Christ, He being the Keystone of the Church, and without Him, the arch, or the Church, would fall. In the front of the organ and choir seats was a three-tiered stand with pulpits, similar to what was in the Tabernacle at that time. And then directly in front of the stands was a long sacrament table that was utilized for Sunday meetings. In the 1983 remodel, the benches were removed and regrained, and the pillars were remarbeled to reflect their original appearance. Great thought and care went into the original design of this building, as with the latest remodeling and upgrade. We sometimes think of our pioneer ancestors as living in a time when everything was plain and old-fashioned. But learning about this building, I think, shows just how concerned they were to have beautiful and inspirational facilities as part of their lives.

This evening we are very pleased to have David Hall with us. David received his bachelor's degree in history and sociology from UCLA, his master's degree in history from BYU, and a PhD from the University of California, Santa Barbara. He has studied the work of Latter-day Saint women for two decades, focusing especially on the Relief Society and the activities of Amy Brown Lyman in particular. Dave has published several articles on the subject in Dialogue, Mormon Historical Studies, and the Journal of Mormon History. He is currently preparing a biography of Amy Brown Lyman for publication. David lectures on history at California State University, Fullerton. He has been married for 28 years to his wife, Terri, and they are the parents of three wonderful children. We are so grateful that Dave has taken the time to drive up here from California. His wife is home, planning the wedding for their other daughter that is still there. I'm sure she's excited to think that she has to stay home and take care of that by herself. We are pleased this evening to have David speak to us. Dave.

Thank you, April. In fact, my wife said, "Make sure that you mention the fact that I'm at home taking care of last minute preparations for the wedding." So there we go. It is a privilege to address you here from this podium-- let me see if I can get the first slide up-- one quite unanticipated when I accepted the invitation to be part of the history lecture series. When Sister Williamsen approached me last year about speaking, I talked to some of my friends in the Church historical department and they said, oh, no big deal. They were holding it in a little room in the History Library, and it got too cramped. And then they removed it to the auditorium in the Church office building, and we don't know where it is now. And then, a few months later, Sister Williamsen said, oh, yeah, and by the way, we're holding them in the Assembly Hall now. Now, I'm used to giving papers on Mormon women at history conferences. And I normally have like the same six women who attend, year after year. So this is a little daunting, compared to what I'm used to. But it is nevertheless a satisfying privilege, because it allows me to speak from this podium. This podium is very special to me. This building is very special to me because, for many years, the Relief Society held their annual conferences here. And the woman about whom I'm going to speak tonight spoke often from this podium, at semiannual conferences here. So it's a great opportunity for me. In September of 1936, first counselor in the General Relief Society presidency, Amy Brown Lyman, joined her husband, Apostle Richard R. Lyman, in presiding over the European mission of the LDS Church. As Amy stepped off the Church at Plymouth, England, she embarked on a new and challenging period of her career. A member of the Relief Society General Board for nearly three decades, Lyman possessed extensive leadership experience in addressing the challenges facing Mormon women in what was a rapidly changing society. Within two years of her 1909 call to the Board, she was functioning as the Relief Society's General secretary, a position she held for nearly two decades, serving in this capacity throughout the administrations of Emmeline B. Wells and Clarissa S. Williams, before her call as First Counselor to the Relief Society President, Louise Y. Robison. So this is a picture of Sister Wells, after a Relief Society conference, being assisted by Sister Williams, and Sister Lyman is bringing up the rear. And here is Sister Williams standing in the photograph. Sister Robison is in the middle, in the center of the photograph on the first row, and Sister Lyman is there to the right of the photograph, in not exactly her most flattering portrait, by the way. So, during this time, Sister Lyman had been a key player in updating the organization's agenda and educational curriculum, and, in particular, developing its standardized curriculum, which included lessons on literature, theology, and social work, and also in the creation of the official organ of the organization, the Relief Society magazine. All of this was intended to make the Relief Society more appealing to younger women who, consequently, joined in droves in the 1910s and '20s, that at the time when membership in the Relief Society was voluntary, and it was a dues-paying organization. But it was in the field of social work where Lyman perhaps made her greatest achievement, and it was in that of bringing modern social work techniques to the service of Church charity. In the 1910s and '20s, she developed a program that educated a vast army of rank and file Relief Society women in the rudiments of modern social work, and mobilized them to address matters of concern in Church and community. In addition, it was she, through the establishment of the pioneering Relief Society Social Service Department, who laid the foundation for what would eventually become LDS Social Services. A skilled social worker herself, since the onset of the Great Depression, she had been taxed to the utmost as she helped direct Relief Society efforts to cope with the overwhelming flood of cases seeking assistance from the Church. When extensive federal relief finally came under Franklin Roosevelt, she then sought to adjust Relief Society charity practices to the new requirements that accompanied New Deal programs. However, her departure to Europe left her unavailable to assist the Relief Society in its efforts to make adjustments to the new requirements necessary under the Church welfare program as it developed. Lyman had also been closely associated with activities relating to the Relief Society's membership in the International and National Councils of Women. Both the National Council of Women of the United States and the International Council of Women were founded in the 1880s as umbrella groups for organized women seeking the suffrage and other rights for their sex. Early involvement in both the national and international councils by such pioneering Mormon women as Emmeline B. Wells built bridges between LDS women and those in the larger community when, due to the ongoing persecution of the Church, such bridges were very much needed. Through the tutelage of Wells, during her early years on the General Board, Lyman quickly became involved in the work of the National Council and rose rapidly in its leadership, serving in the 1920s as its general secretary, and then as one of its vice presidents. All of this is to show that Lyman arrived in Europe as an experienced administrator and innovative leader in the affairs of the Relief Society, the Church, and the cause of women. Much of her experience would prove useful during her mission. But her two years in Europe also confronted her with new realities, and indeed a different culture of Mormonism than that to which she was accustomed. This eventually led her to rethink the adequacy of the policies and practices she had helped develop to serve the needs of the majority of Mormon women living in communities in the American West. As she came to understand with great clarity, European Saints faced circumstances and challenges very different than their American sisters. An examination of her response to these realities reveals a pattern of adjustments of the kind that would later become more common as Mormonism increasingly established itself beyond its American core. As I'm sure some of you know far better than I, the work of a mission president and his wife taxes them to the utmost, as it draws upon all their energies and abilities, as they struggle to function in a wide variety of capacities. In addition to the work of the mission, of course, more immediate tasks must also be fulfilled, which include everything from housing to, if the family has young children still at home, schooling. These often involve simple, but often time-consuming and vexing adjustments. For the Lymans, housing was no problem. The mission home at 5 Gordon Square, London, was indeed their home. They occupied the fourth and fifth floor of a building that compensated to a degree for its want of an elevator by its possession of that commodity, rare in England at the time, of central heating. In a country where, as Lyman wrote home to family members, people would go outside to get warm, she warmed the mission offices and the family accommodations with unheard of liberality. In fact, she was notable for that. And while the Lymans' own children had grown to adulthood, the untimely death, first of a daughter-in-law, and then of a son, had left them with the care of the couple's young daughter, who accompanied them on their mission, as did their long-term housekeeper, telling us right there that this was a different era, one in which the Lymans, whom we today would consider a family of relatively modest means, were able to bring along their hired help on their mission. Of course, schooling had to be provided for their daughter, or granddaughter, Lyman's namesake, Amy Catherine, who was then about 11 years old. Lyman had a few priorities in choosing an institution, which turned out to be a little difficult, given the English school system. First of all-- no boarding schools. Then she was determined to find a school with central heating. She set 60 degrees Fahrenheit as her minimum standard of acceptable warmth. And finally, and most importantly, she wanted one that did not make use of corporal punishment of any kind. She had long opposed corporal punishment for children, an advocacy she followed herself with absolute fidelity. She wanted no Dickinsonian experiences for young Amy. After much searching, a suitable school was located and everything seemed perfect. However, Lyman never learned about something that, had she known, would have prompted her to withdraw her granddaughter in an instant. The students all shared a common drinking cup, suspended from a chain, a gross violation of the basic rules of hygiene, one that would have sent someone like Lyman, who had long worked so tirelessly in behalf of improved public health, into apoplexy. In addition to such adjustments of location and family life, of course, mission presidents and their wives have significant obligations in representing the Church and promoting its interests. In this capacity, the Lymans attended receptions and banquets at the American embassy and the American Chamber of Commerce, and at clubs and organizations, especially when prominent members of the Church were in town. This is where Amy and Richard's previous experience and contact could benefit the Church. Before his call to the Apostleship, Richard had been an accomplished and well known civil engineer and college professor, and still did occasional consulting work. He was a well-connected member of important engineering societies and fraternities and was experienced functioning in sophisticated social settings. As for Amy, her long history of social welfare activities and leadership in social work and local and national women's organizations gave her significant prominence of her own; indeed, perhaps prominence greater than her husband. He would sometimes introduce himself, only half-jokingly, when speaking as part of his apostolic duties, as Amy Brown Lyman's husband. In any case, they were an early power couple in the Church. Now they don't look like a power couple in this photograph. They just look tired. But, believe me, they were a power couple, and their connections, their experiences, opened doors for the Church, before their mission, and continued to do so while they served in Europe. Of course, of all their responsibilities, the most demanding by far was that of presiding over the work of the European mission. This was a difficult position for them, because it was the presidents of each of the individual missions who together comprised the European mission, who bore direct responsibility for the work and for the members. Amy and Richard's role was complicated and diverse, but perhaps we could most accurately describe an important part of their function was simply to serve as both cheerleader and facilitator for the presidents of the individual missions, a job that they fulfilled with a great deal of skill and energy. As the wife of the president of the European mission, Lyman was responsible for overseeing the affairs of all the, quote, "women's organizations" of the Church in each of the 12 missions that made up the European mission; namely, the work of the Relief Society, the Young Women's Mutual Improvement Association, and the Primary organization. In carrying out this responsibility, Amy worked closely with the wives of the individual mission presidents, who oversaw the women's organizations in each of their own areas. Though she had followed developments in the missions in her capacity as General Relief Society leader, and, indeed, in her long-running notes from the field column in the Relief Society magazine, had even chronicled the activities of Church units in European countries, it did not take her long to recognize that conditions for Church members in Europe were far more complex than she imagined, a circumstance that strained even her formidable abilities to innovate and adapt. However, she was a determined and courageous individual who refused to shy away from undertakings that others might find too daunting. An example of this can be found in her first foray into Europe. Her journey, within days of her arrival, to serve as a delegate of the National Council of Women of the United States to the triannual meeting of the International Council of Women, held way over on the other side of Europe, in Dubrovnik, Yugoslavia. Now, I don't have a picture of that. So we're just going to go back to that picture and you can pretend it's Amy getting on a train to Yugoslavia. Her journey to Dubrovnik was, in itself, a notable achievement, one that, in retrospect, she allowed, was quite brave on her part. She was also to observe later that she had not realized that Europe was so large and that travel connections at the time were so poor. Meetings with the outgoing mission president and his wife, which was Brother and Sister Joseph Merrill, had delayed Lyman's departure, prevented her as she had intended from traveling to Dubrovnik in company with the British delegation. So, traveling alone for four days, through unfamiliar territory, without speaking a word of any language but English, she made her way through several countries, passed through border customs, made several difficult train and ferry connections, and dealt with uncomprehending government officials, ticket agents, and baggage handlers. On one occasion, she was confronted with both a taxi driver and baggage handler who screamed at her with arms upraised. She listened, perplexed, until she finally realized the problem. She was trying to pay them in English pounds rather than the local currency. Nevertheless, she managed to make her way successfully and safely to Dubrovnik, the latter just barely, as, at one point, while traveling from car to car in a train, she had opened a door, expecting to find the next coach, but instead was shocked to find herself standing at the end of the moving train, watching the tracks rapidly recede before her. She was so startled, she nearly fell off, threatening an end to her mission before it even started. That she arrived at her destination on time, after days of such adventures, revealed her inner pluck and determination. Yet, all things considered, it's little wonder that, upon her return to London, she revealed privately to family members that, at times, the experience had given her heart palpitations. Conditions at the conference in Dubrovnik revealed a whole new set of obstacles that would impact Lyman's activities. By this time, international tensions were already running high in Europe, a circumstance Lyman found quite apparent. Hitler had taken over all governmental power in Germany early in 1933. In March of 1936, he had sent an army of 35,000 to reoccupy the Rhineland, in violation of the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, ending the First World War. Meanwhile, as Civil War raged in Spain, Italy was engaged in military adventures in North Africa. It seemed to many in Europe and America that another major war was close at hand. Not surprisingly, then, Lyman found evidence at the Conference of significant tensions between the different European delegations, and even among factions within the host country of Yugoslavia. Representatives of a local women's organization, for instance, one unaffiliated with either the International Council or the National Council of Women of Yugoslavia, and one noted for its radical positions on sensitive regional political issues involving the nation's ethnic groups, demanded recognition and official status at all the council's meetings. This led to the cancelling of a reception hosted by Dubrovnik's mayor, rather than create a potentially explosive confrontation. The region's status as a tinderbox was implied in another reception. It was hosted by Queen Marie of Yugoslavia, whose husband, King Alexander, had been assassinated by ethnic nationalists during a visit to Marseilles just two years before, leaving behind his widow and a young crown prince. A more pointed illustration of the tensions then roiling Europe as a whole occurred in one of the conference sessions, when several women stormed out when the president of the Italian council rose to speak in protest of that nation's occupation of Abyssinia. Later, at a session devoted to labor issues, Scandinavian delegates argued bitterly with the same Italian representative about the compulsory nature of unions under Mussolini. Meanwhile, a veteran leader of the International Council and a prominent social worker from Germany, who was also a longtime acquaintance of Lyman's, sent a letter in, announcing her resignation. She had been forced to give up her position when Hitler dissolved Germany's National Council, and as a Jew, was preparing to leave home to begin a lengthy lecture tour of the United States. Despite these drawbacks, the council was able to accomplish a great deal. Delegates approved a long list of resolutions endorsing women's rights, equal moral standards for men and women, at a time when that meant holding men to a higher standard, and promoting a host of social reforms. Seemingly most urgent was a resolution advancing women everywhere or advising women everywhere to support the League of Nations in its work for world peace. New officers were installed as well, including a president, who, in a long conversation with Lyman, noted the flagging interest of American women in the work of the International Council. She then urged Lyman to go home and "see if you can not stir up more interest." It would be some time before Lyman could return home and carry out this task, but in the meantime, she would energetically do what she could to promote the work of the council among European Saints. At the conclusion of the conference, Lyman gained additional education about European conditions. It took her six days to return to London, this time traveling in company with the English delegation, which gave her an opportunity for careful observations along the way, which, in turn, gave her insight into the great economic and social disparities that existed in Europe. In Sarajevo and Zagreb, she saw peasant women in colorful costume arriving at market balancing large bundles on their heads, while in the countryside, she watched women and children working like pack horses, as she termed it. In a letter home, she observed that she had never seen such poverty and such hard work. As a social worker, Lyman was well aware of class and social differences that existed among Americans, some very pronounced, even, increasingly, among some members of the Church. But these paled in comparison to what she observed in Europe at the time. She also noted that tense feelings seemed to be everywhere. Quote, "an apparent dread of impending conflicts." Nobody, she concluded, seems to want war and still everybody feels that it may break out at any time. These experiences, coming as they did at the beginning of her time in Europe, gave her an early understanding of the obstacles to lasting peace. As to the conference itself, it reinforced her views on the special role required of women in fostering cooperation and promoting harmony amid what Lyman described as, quote, "A condition of tenseness, a suspicion, and a lack of confidence between nations." This, however, was just the beginning of Lyman's travels and her education about the conditions in Europe that shaped the experience of the Saints there. By the following December, she had toured England and Ireland on Church business, and trips to other nations soon followed. Through all of this, she and Richard grew familiar with the mission presidents and their wives, and seemed to have developed a good rapport with them. You'll be quizzed on the mission presidents afterwards, so you might want to remember that list.

Outgoing, with a keen intellect, and deeply sensitive to the needs of others, many found Amy especially striking. One mission president described her in these terms, quote, this is from his journal: "Sister Lyman impresses me as being a very fine woman. She is intelligent, pleasant, never overbearing, and appreciative of all kindnesses shown to her." High praise indeed. And we probably wish he'd stop there, because he continues on to say, "She knows her place and she keeps it. This is one virtue she has that has held her high in my eyes." I don't know if, in sum, we would exactly give this direction or this description regarding Lyman. But she certainly knew how to get along with others within the Church organization and with Church leaders. And she was very skilled in projecting a congenial image, although she was certainly no shrinking violet in pursuing solutions to pressing problems, as many others at the time could have attested. Among the wives of the mission presidents, she was especially noted for her kindness and the respect she showed for their efforts and their abilities, something they greatly appreciated. This, in turn, facilitated her ability to learn through them the strengths and weaknesses of Church programs in each of their areas. In the spring of 1937, the Lymans traveled to Paris, where they presided over their first mission presidents conference, which is where this photograph comes from. The second conference was held the following year in Copenhagen, Denmark. And, before this first conference, and, again, throughout her experience as she held these kinds of meetings, in an apparent innovation, she sent out a letter to each of the sisters, soliciting their unvarnished assessments on the strengths and weaknesses of the programs in their missions. And she made a big point of it. I want your honest assessment of what's going on. That's what we need. Don't, you know, butter things up. Give me the truth. In addition, she assigned some to make presentations on special problems and challenges they were encountering and their progress in dealing with them. Each woman was encouraged to come ready to participate in several sessions, which, in sum, covered two full days of the conferences, where the women could be able to discuss in depth the matters that concerned them and concerned the work. In fulfilling their responsibilities, the mission presidents and their wives were confronted with a wide range of significant problems. The glory days of the decades past in the European missions were over. Conversion rates were low and, amid the ongoing international depression and mounting tensions in Europe, seemed unlikely to pick up any time soon. In addition, the policies of years past to, quote, "gather to the American Zion" had left the European Saints without a strong, established institutional presence, and lacking leaders experienced in administering programs of the kind likely to attract new members. The dissatisfaction expressed by some leaders over such stagnant conditions that resulted, under these circumstances, could be telling in its frankness. "France is a godless nation," exclaimed the president of the French mission in the conference of mission presidents, just a few months before the Lymans' arrival. Quote, "The fastidious Frenchman seems to have little place in his soul for religion." Now, subsequent comments indicate these were more representative, sorry, of frustration than sincerely held convictions on the part of the president, who was, meanwhile, very active in trying to increase the effectiveness of the work in his mission. Others, not quite so blunt, nevertheless shared his concern about lack of progress in regard to the work, even as they joined in struggling to find solutions to this unsatisfactory circumstance. Their wives were also anxiously engaged in trying to find ways to improve the functioning of Church programs and enhance the success of the missionary work. As the Lymans took over the mission, each of the presidents were confronted with problems that include everything from immature and inadequately prepared missionaries-- one president asked, for example, that no missionary under 20 years of age be sent to his mission-- and even wondered if it might not be possible to call permanent missionaries, who would be in a better position to master the language and the culture. Apparently the answer was no to both those requests. To other problems, like weak translations and inadequate proselytizing materials, there was a consensus that this is something that needed to be addressed throughout the mission. As Lyman was to find, among the most pressing of the problems, and one of the most difficult dilemmas that confronted the presidents and their wives, was whether to prioritize efficiency of administration, which often meant turning over Church programs to missionaries better experienced in their proper functioning, or, instead, focus on the development of local leadership, which meant that programs seldom functioned effectively. And clearly, there was no consensus, with some missions coming down on the one side of the question, while others took the opposite. The president of the Swedish mission, for example, spoke with pride about the smoothness with which the Sunday School was being administered, now that missionaries were in charge instead of undependable local members. Interestingly, however, during the women's session of the conference, his wife noted the progress being made in developing local leadership in the women's organizations, and even laid out her own program to accomplish that task through more comprehensive training. The wife of another president, however, noted the greater efficiency that followed when she took over personal supervision of the Relief Society, MIA, and the primary work. At the same time, there was a move away from dependence on the missionaries by many of the presidents, who saw problems of their own in relying overly heavily on the missions. Well, on these matters, the Lymans came down firmly on the side of preparing local leaders to take up the task of leading the local units and their programs. At their first conference, in fact, rather awkwardly, shortly after the president got up and kind of boasted about how much better the Sunday School was functioning now that he had taken over, Amy's husband, President Richard R. Lyman, addressed the group and strongly urged them to take steps to develop local leadership. This was to be their top priority, and this was something that Amy emphasized in the women's meetings as well. One factor, which rose repeatedly in some of the mission reports, and which Lyman herself had found pervasive in her tours throughout the mission, and one with serious repercussions in affecting Church work, involved social and economic divisions among the members. Many were from working class backgrounds. And pronounced class differences between them and others in the Church from somewhat higher economic strata hindered the development of a strong sense of unity among the Saints. Adding to this, educational opportunities were more restricted in Europe, with a consequence that many of the leaders in the women's organizations had only a few years of formal education, limited to the primary grades. Under such circumstances, Lyman quickly perceived, for example, that the centralized curriculum developed along the Wasatch Front for Relief Society women was not entirely suitable for European Saints. Intended to stretch the intellect of American women who possessed far greater educational opportunities than many of her European sisters, and many of whom, as well, had experience in the women's club movement, with its agenda of continual education, reflecting this rather at one point in the latter '20s, the Relief Society made the study of Ibsen's A Doll's House a part of its Relief Society curriculum. Imagine doing that today. Amy felt that, and expressed her opinion in letters back to Relief Society leaders in Salt Lake, that many, although certainly not all, of the European Saints found the curriculum simply too advanced to master. Complicating this, many of the European sisters were converts and had limited knowledge of Church doctrine. Indeed, institutional knowledge of Church programs had been hindered in the early days of missionary work by the continual excess, or exodus of converts who gathered to the American Zion. This brain drain of experienced members was a situation that had changed only comparatively recently, at the time Lyman had arrived. For such European Relief Society members, often young in Church experience, the organization's theology lessons were simply too advanced. Another difficulty Lyman noted required simple but needed adjustments in emphasis in Church lessons, such as that very concept of Zion and the gathering. Many European sisters, who had no reasonable hope of ever gathering to America, and indeed were being urged by Church leaders to stay where they were and build Zion in their home countries, felt that there was too much glorification of the American Zion in the official curriculum. And Lyman considered, under the circumstances, for them, that was true. Making matters still more difficult, she noted that, unlike most of their American sisters at the time, the majority of European women worked and had little time to struggle with concepts that ofttimes overstretch their intellect. She suggested to Relief Society leaders back home that lessons be made simpler, and that they focus more on the rudiments of Church doctrine and history, and be written in a style that a tired sister could easily comprehend with one reading, after a long day of work. An open discussion in the wives' meetings revealed a similar need to promote greater understanding among the European sisters of the Relief Society itself, and its role within the work of the Church as a whole. Another of Lyman's concerns involved a reinvigoration of the charity work of local Relief Societies, something that presented special problems, given the variety of structures and regulations involved in state-sponsored welfare programs in many European countries. In the Netherlands, for example, charity work was strictly limited, with no additional assistance allowed to be given by any other organization to those being aided by the government. Meanwhile, in Nazi Germany, groups outside the government were forbidden from helping the poor, as well, or entirely, making charity funds collected by local sisters unneeded and unusable. It was here that Lyman's experience in the changing circumstances of social welfare work in America came into use. Lyman, a master of adaptation to new conditions, searched for and found ways for Relief Society women in several European countries to make a meaningful contribution to the welfare of Church members in ways that did not conflict with established governmental systems. She organized training sessions utilizing materials adapted for the use of the Relief Society charity workers in Europe that highlighted the special history and advanced development of the social welfare work that characterized their own countries. And, in addition, she devised lessons and approaches that met the needs and desires of local Saints. For example, many European members were especially concerned about matters regarding family health and nutrition. For example, in Britain she drew upon a series of informational packets developed by the government to construct a group of lessons that promoted better public health practices among the Saints there. Lyman was not always successful with her efforts. For example, knowing the advantages that had come to American Saints in breaking down barriers of prejudice, which was a major concern in Europe, through their participation in the work of such organizations as the National Council of Women, Lyman had urged the wives of the mission presidents to enlist the Relief Societies, the MIAs, and the primary organizations in the respective National Councils in each of their areas. She hoped this would reestablish bridges between Mormon women and their non-Mormon sisters in Europe, and also revitalize the Relief Society, as it took up the agenda of organized womanhood in the various missions. However, despite her efforts, such work would languish and not be picked up again until a more stable environment emerged after the Second World War. Lyman observed additional problems as well, including ones that had substantial effects on the overall effectiveness of Church programs. For example, in local units, often branches with members scattered over large areas, leaders found it too difficult to carry out the full range of Church activities. There were simply too many jobs for limited numbers of Church members to fill. And, consequently, most served in multiple positions and, thus overstretched, frequently did all of their jobs poorly. Efforts to carry out the Relief Society's program of visiting teaching was also a significant challenge under such circumstances, when members were few and widely scattered. With most LDS women working, this also meant that they had to make visits at night, which raised concerns about their safety. In addition, most did not have telephones, unlike their American sisters, making it difficult to arrange or readjust visits. Lyman thus recommended that Relief Society women make modifications and adjustments to the programs, to take account for the realities that confronted them. In regard to her supervision of the other women's auxiliaries, Lyman learned that the MIA was doing well in several missions, with large numbers in attendance, members and non-members alike, who were attracted to its wholesome and enjoyable program of activities. Germany was one exception to this trend. Nazi officials could not comprehend the reason for Church meetings on days other than Sunday, and did not like programs that competed with the agenda of the Hitler Youth. Hitler Youth, MIA-- I don't know, I don't see them really in competition. But there we go. In contrast to the generally rosy picture of the MIA work, the Primaries seem to have been universally seen as the problem child of the missions, no pun intended, but there we go. According to the reports from the wives of the mission presidents, it only attracted children of, quote, "the lower sort." By this was meant children of working mothers. Now, we're not stopping there-- most often not Church members, who were left to fend for themselves on the streets during the day. So they were a rowdy, unsupervised group. That's what they meant. Rather a rough lot, they scared away children that were termed quote, "more respectable" from families who might be in a better position to build the Church and its reputation. All in all, the Primary work was struggling. The situation in one became so bad, in fact, that the only solution that could be thought of was simply to dissolve it. There were reports, however, on the other hand, that some Primaries were doing very well. But these reports were not always to be believed. In one example, for example, Lyman had been alerted to a report from one missionary, which was published in a hometown newspaper in Utah, recounting huge successes in one of the Scandinavian Primary organizations. However, upon consulting with the wife of the mission president, the truth came out. In the words of the mission president's wife, she said, "I know that it was reported that we had such a wonderful Primary up here in the north. One Primary was said to have an attendance of 80 on a regular basis," which was very big in Europe at the time. "In investigating this, we found that it was only during a couple of months in the winter, under extreme cold, that the children came. It was a place to get warm. And then the elders bought them all day suckers every week to get them to come. Then the elders stopped doing this and the children stopped coming." Like other challenges facing the wives of mission presidents, the Primary problem offered no easy solution. In addition to her own efforts, Lyman encouraged those who were taking the lead to meet such requirements in their respective areas, and passed on these circumstances and the methods being taken to address them back to leaders of each of the organizations in Salt Lake City. Lyman's efforts at making adjustments in programs of the missions continued apace, even as other activities claimed her attention. In the summer of 1937, for example, she joined Richard in hosting an extended visit by Church President Heber J. Grant, and his First Counselor J. Reuben Clark, in celebration of the centennial of the European mission. In addition to watching the Saints' spirits buoyed up by the presence of the prophet and his first counselor, this time allowed the Lymans to discuss in depth the challenges faced by the members in Europe, and the needed adjustments in Church programs to address them. Her efforts were maintained the following fall and winter. And when spring arrived, she again traveled extensively, with Richard, throughout the mission. On this occasion, they took a lengthy tour of each of the missions in Europe, and were able to examine conditions there very closely indeed. It also provided significant opportunities to promote the interests of the Church with governmental officials and civic leaders, as well as its share of adventures. For example, on the voyage back from Germany, Amy recounted how she was rather taken back when one of the stewards came in to each of the rooms and fastened large cardboard basins onto the sides of each of the bunks. And she said, "Is anything going on?" And the steward rather evasively said, "Well, the captain said it is going to be a little windy." Well, it became windy during dinner. Lyman said, "Dishes began to fly, and I flew as well, back to my cabin, and just in time. I was never so sick in my life and vowed that I would never take another ocean voyage, except that back to America." Well, on the other hand, more in regard to the work, by now it was 1938, at the end of this lengthy tour of the mission, and Lyman had developed a very good grasp of conditions in each of the missions, and the adjustments that needed to be made in Church programs and curriculums. Together with the wives of the mission presidents, she was laying the foundation for a coordinated response to common problems, and communicating with the leadership of the Relief Society, the MIA, and Primary organizations back in Salt Lake, about the situations, and the steps that were being taken to address it.

But, of course, by this time, war clouds hung even heavier over their journeys than before. By 1938, by the time that they completed their travels, Hitler had annexed Austria, in March of that year. And during the Lymans' visits to Vienna at the beginning of May, long swastika banners hung from all the downtown buildings. Tensions were especially high during their visit to Czechoslovakia, where government officials indicated that the situation was quote, "quite serious," and that almost anything might happen, as "the Czechs are determined to maintain their independence." In Germany, meanwhile, civil liberties continued to deteriorate. The wife of the mission president, in addition, reported that additional changes were needed in the Relief Society curriculum, as the standardized theology lessons for that year dwelt so much on the role of the Jewish folk that she was afraid the Nazi government might forbid their use. All in all, it was an extremely sobering time. The climatic event of Lyman's mission only reinforced such impressions. In July, she again served as a delegate to the International Council of Women, this time at its meeting in Edinburgh, Scotland. 900 representatives from 31 countries were in attendance, and the subject of war weighed heavily over their proceedings. Lyman reported in a letter home that, quote, "There was not a single session where it did not come up in one connection or another." She noted with approval that strong resolutions were passed urging women to work for peace by promoting economic justice and political education. However, indicating just how desperate the organization judged the crisis to be, one later made an ecumenical call for prayer by the women of the world, despite the fact that the council had long avoided any reference to religion, because of its divisiveness. Not long after this conference, with war imminent, the Lymans were notified that their term of missionary service was to be shortened by a year. And, in September, they sailed for the United States. So there we are. That's actually the Lymans leaving for America. Meanwhile, upon her return to Salt Lake, Lyman resumed her active service as First Counselor to the Relief Society President, Louise Robison. There is Lyman. But her European experiences, not only of the impending conflict, but also the varied needs of the sisters there, continued to weigh upon her. Significantly, one of her main tasks upon her return was to prepare a series of special lessons for the use of the sisters in the European missions, in lieu of those in the standard Relief Society curriculum. And Lyman would remain sensitive to the condition of the Saints in Europe, even as she made her next transition in Relief Society service. A little over a year after her return from Europe, she was called to preside over the organization as its new president. As the war began to envelop the region where she had so recently served, Lyman used her conference addresses to draw attention to the plight of the European Saints and to solicit support for them from their American sisters. With the advent of the war, each of the mission presidents of the European mission was called home. In the first conference of her administration, she asked these sisters, recently returned, to share with the Relief Society their observations on the work and the challenges that they had faced. Over the course of her presidency, she remained sensitive to topics and issues addressed in the organization's conferences and periodicals, in order to avoid causing difficulties for the Saints in the war-torn continents. Now, at this point, as Lyman's mission has concluded, it kind of leaves us with a question, and an issue that needs to be addressed, because it's an ongoing question that confronts Church leaders. So what was to become of the pathway laid out by Lyman and the wives of the mission presidents to address the unique circumstances affecting the European Saints? We saw that, as she returned home, she addressed some of these things. She continued to address some of them as president. But this is an ongoing challenge that the Church faces. How do leaders balance the need to maintain continuity over time to adequately address complicated and deeply entrenched problems, while at the same time allowing new leaders the freedom to follow the Spirit in developing their own agenda, an agenda which sometimes leaves old issues unresolved? In practical terms, what was to become of all the investigations made, all the materials prepared by Lyman and the wives of the mission presidents? Again, under normal circumstances, this would be a decision made by the subsequent president and his wife, who would be free to utilize this material, build upon it, or simply cast it aside and move in a new direction. But these, of course, were not normal times. Lyman was able to utilize it herself, but, of course, what happens now, when Lyman leaves the position as president?

As the war wound down, Lyman was released as president of the Relief Society in spring of 1945. And, of course, the main concern facing the Saints as the war ended in Europe was simple survival. Rebuilding Church programs would come later. Who would be there to build on the information that Lyman had gathered, the insights that Lyman had achieved? Fortunately, Lyman was succeeded by her protege and counselor Belle Spafford, there in the bottom right of the photograph, and she took up the task, after the war, of ministering to the scarred and fragmented Relief Societies in the postwar period. And after standing by Lyman's side and learning from her for years, she was extremely well-qualified and well-prepared for this task. And she grounded many of her programs and insights on the work that Lyman had done. So therefore, during Lyman's time, and immediately thereafter, there was some continuity. These issues were addressed, the insights were made use of. And in that respect, Lyman's time in Europe represents a small but important step along the pathway of recognizing the need to adjust Church programs and policies to the needs of members in diverse political and cultural settings. And, as such, it denoted another marker in Mormonism's passage from a strictly American to an international faith. So there I am. There we go, and that's that. So, questions. [APPLAUSE] How long-- I didn't quite understand, how she and her husband were mission president and wife, but yet they went around and visited all other mission presidents. Were they over the whole group, or-- So was there anyone else who was confused about that? No. No. There are a few people, good, I've done a good job, because my attempt is to confuse as many as possible. No, well, they would be like comparable to Area Authority type situation today. Oh, OK. So they were president of the European mission, but then each of the individual missions had their own presidents and the president's wife. And I'm not familiar, there really needs to be a better term than president's wife. Mark Woodruff, who's sitting here, a good friend of mine, who's served as a mission president, is there any other term that you're aware of, other than wife of the mission, or mission mother? Spouse. Spouse, there we go, spouse of the mission president. But really, in many respects, they're serving as equals in this calling, in many respects. So, I mean, this is a very important calling. What happened to the little girl that drank from the common cup? The little girl who did what, now? The granddaughter who-- What happened to the granddaughter? The granddaughter grew up to marry a man by the name of Keith Engar, who some of you may remember as head of the drama department of the University of Utah. This was Amy Lyman Engar. And she was later a member of the, I think it was the Primary General Board. And did you know Amy? A wonderful woman, who I got to know early on in my work, who unfortunately passed away much too soon, but lived a nevertheless good and productive and wonderful, fulfilling life, wonderfully fulfilling life. Her surviving daughter married Alexander Schreiner, if you know the Schreiners. So-- [INAUDIBLE] Pardon?

Her daughter, not her granddaughter. Her daughter, are you family? This would be the Lyman's daughter, not their granddaughter. Their daughter, their granddaughter married Keith Engar, who some of you may remember. I read an article I think a few years ago that said that Hitler actually was impressed with the Relief Society, and patterned some of his programs after that, and also the youth. I just wondered if it sounds like you have a little different opinion of that, if you did any work on that? I'm really not qualified to, certainly not qualified to get inside of Hitler's head on that particular matter. There are, and I'd have to look at the article. I know that there was contact between high-ranking German officials, including mission leaders, and officials of the Nazi party, high-ranking Church officials and members of the Nazi party. So there was some interaction going on. But this was on a personal basis. But I really don't know. I don't see a lot in common with the Nazi programs on motherhood, with which I am somewhat familiar, and the work of the Relief Society, other than an emphasis on motherhood. But I wouldn't want to make two close of an association with that. But I'd have to follow up on the reference you're citing a little more closely to indicate what they're talking about. Sorry. Yes. That's what you get when you get an academic answering a question. It's never straightforward. Yes. You mentioned that, in some countries in Europe, it was hard to have Primary during the week, hard to have a weekday youth activity, as was the pattern in America. In any of those cases, those early situations, did they ever try putting several things together on a Sunday, as is now often done in America? In other words, are you asking, did they kind of adapt and come up with a program similar to what we have today? Yes. Not that I'm aware of. And, indeed, the Relief Society, you know, when was Relief Society meeting, for years up until consolidated meeting schedule? Tuesday afternoons, right? And that's the way it was, which, even as women began to work more, there was a-- well, anyway that's a whole other topic. But I'm not aware of that adjustment.

Your early descriptions of Amy's activity in the United States sets her in the mode of an American progressive. Did she see herself as a part of the progressive movement? Oh, most definitely. In the first two decades of the 20th century. Most definitely. There was a strong movement, progressive movement, among Church members around the turn of the century. They were at the forefront in progressive measures, like improved government and public health, and even things like widow's pensions and things like that. So she was very much a progressive. A lifelong Republican, but very much a progressive. The Republicans were the progressives, predominantly, around the turn of the century.

David, thank you so much for this address. And I had a question. First of all, it's remarkable that she had almost 40 years in Relief Society, when the tenure now is five for a General President and very little, few years tutelage for-- but from other work that I drew from you, she seemed very much the go-to woman for social services in the Church. And the welfare program came up out of Salt Lake stake with Harold B. Lee. What was that like, when Relief Society and priesthood, and the merging and the exodus, and when she came back, what was her role in social services as head of Relief Society and for Relief Society? Let me see, I don't have my looking around the room glasses. Is that Carol Lee? I don't know.

That's a big topic and an involved question. Lyman was the go-to person. Lyman was the one who developed social welfare work in the Church. And this led to a difficult-- a different situation when President Clark came in. And President Clark had a number of concerns, that he felt that the Relief Society perhaps was a little off in its cooperation with government. He was very concerned about the role of government. So the short answer was the Relief Society was kind of pushed aside, and a separate program was developed independent of it. Lyman was there when this began, but she was off on her mission when the real work got going. So the Relief Society, which had been at the center of all of this, was left to kind of figure out what their role was in the new program. And for a couple of years, they didn't think it was much. And this was rather frustrating for President Grant, because they really needed the-- or President Clark, because they really needed the Relief Society's efforts to support his program, get the welfare program going. And indeed, when Lyman returned from her mission, he and Sister Lyman had gotten to know each other quite well, on a kind of more congenial-- they'd been almost adversarial, in some respects, within the wonderful Church context, of course. But almost adversarial before her mission, but they got to know each other quite well during the mission, and he came to realize that she had talents and abilities that would be beneficial. And so he came to rely upon her, when she returned from her mission, to kind of get the Relief Society up to speed in adapting to its new role that he had envisioned for it, under the Church welfare plan. And indeed, as Relief Society President, she really developed the Relief Society's role and, to the great benefit of the Church welfare plan. So, yeah, it's a complicated question. But I deal with it rather extensively in the book, that should be about done this summer, and dealt with it, I had an article out a couple of years back in the Journal of Mormon History that touched on it to a degree as well.

One of my favorite quotes by Sister Lyman is that she says she felt that when Joseph Smith turned the key for the Relief Society, he not only turned it for just the Latter-day Saint women and children, but for all women and children in the world. And she really felt, as she began her work, in the whole house, and that experience that she had early on and then as she went for more training, and all of her extensive service or experience in the welfare services, she really saw that it was an extension of that turning of the key from Joseph Smith's time to not just Latter-day Saint women and children, but to all women. And was that-- I only have the one quote, and my question, I guess, essentially is, was that a pervasive feeling in her experience, that she was-- I think it was a pervasive feeling among the first generations of Mormon women, not just Lyman. And if you're familiar with Carol Cornwall Madsen's volume on Emmeline B. Wells and her work on Emmeline and other work on the early Church sisters, there was this sense, I mean, and Lyman noted in a number of addresses, you know, they didn't see it as any coincidence that the Church was organized just a few years before this Seneca Falls Convention in 1848. They saw this turning of the key at Nauvoo as Joseph said, the opening of the better days for this Society, well, they saw it as the beginning of the better days for women. And they certainly saw the work of the Church as something that would benefit the women of the world, not just the women of the Church. And she saw all of her efforts kind of relate to that. There's no question. So, yes, I think that's a good point. I see April up here. We must be about out of time. One question. One more question. We'll do one more. A quick question. How long did she live? When did she die? She died in 1959, right? In December, active right to the end, she had been making soap, a task that she had learned during the war, slipped on some grease, and broke her arm right there, called up her granddaughter and said, "You know, if it didn't hurt so bad, I could turn my shoulder completely around, and it wouldn't move my arm at all." I mean, this is just so typical Amy Brown Lyman, just this energetic, tough woman. But it was just too much for her heart. And a few days later, she passed away. But she was 87. Yeah. So, active right to the end. OK, well thank you very much. [APPLAUSE]

[MUSIC PLAYING]