(Applause)

Brothers and sisters, I’ve worked for the military my entire life, for the Navy, the Air Force, and now the secretary of defense, and the result of that is I have deep respect for those of you that are active duty and your families.

I am one of those people. If you heard all that Lean Six Sigma stuff, the processes and the checklists that Chaplain Dawson mentioned earlier,

we try to make those easier for you, but I kind of know the problems you face. That's what I do.

I know what you're dealing with. And you know what I've seen?

I've seen that we are going to meet the mission. And this is what I've witnessed my entire career. Those of you who are active duty and who support our active duty, we meet the mission no matter what. And I have so much honor for that.

For those of you that are chaplains here that are for hospices and prisons and, and for Border Patrol, and for our other chaplains that are here, I also, my other calling I have, I’m the the communication director for the coordinating council back in Virginia. And I know how important it is to be out in the community, serving shoulder-to-shoulder in our, with our interfaith brothers and sisters. It's so important in our world right now to preserve that religious freedom. So thank you for your service.

So perhaps understanding my love of and my honor for what you do,

perhaps you can understand just a little bit of what I'm going to relate.

We had an incredibly beautiful experience in Washington, D.C., with the temple open house. So maybe you, maybe you read about it.

I was one of the co-chairs of the military committee, and we had a day scheduled for everyone, and the first day, so if you read about the temple open house, the first day was when we had the media and the military. So we had three media things. We had the national, the global, and the cultural, and then we had our media.

Now there are a few of you in the room, of course, that helped quite a bit with that.

General Taylor did, and of course Eric Baxter. And I'll mention a few more in a minute. But as you can imagine, it was very difficult to figure out how to invite the military. We have to be super careful, right? So, of course, we invited our Military Advisory Committee. General Carlson helped us, and Todd Lynn and Rick Roggia came to our rescue and helped us get everything ready.

The first day was, I can’t even describe what this was like, to be in our temple and Elder Bednar and Elder Gong and Sister Eubank and Sister Aburto were there to testify of the blessings in the temple. And as they went and opened the doors of the temple to the public for the first time in 40 years, the media ran to get there, and I was on the tour with Elder Gong to begin with the media and

I just, they ran getting in there, you know, wanting to be the first and then there and then to see the faces change, to see the peace descend. And the testimony is something I cannot describe.

And to hear Elder Gong with these media talk about what was in their core hearts

and to hear them vocally testify of the peace they could feel is something I will never forget. So knowing that Major General Chaplain Randall Kitchens was there that day as part of that first group,

the, the military overlapped with the media at the end. So you hear his words. He said, “Touring the temple was a moving experience. The welcoming spirit from each person who greeted me, received me, guided me through the tour of the temple right through to my departure , was radiant and encouraging. I was deeply moved by the sense of peace represented, and I loved my tour of the temple.”

So I remember distinctly we had all the days scheduled out, and as we were discussing the military, I had a distinct prompting that we needed to ask for tours specifically for the chaplains. Now, we didn’t have chaplains coming yet, this was very early on, and I asked them to open the next day for us and we scheduled a bunch of empty tours for the chaplains, and

what was very beautiful is the chaplains came, and I really felt like that was an inspired prompting.

We had the Air Force Chief of Chaplains, the Office of the Army chaplains, the Coast Guard, Fort Bragg, Fort Meade, Annapolis, Air National Guard, Walter Reed, Fort Belvoir, Fort McNair, Fort Myer, they all came.

Chaplain Helms was a really big part of that and inviting those local to the area. Chaplain,

these chaplains? Chaplain Trujillo brought his,

invited everyone from Fort Meade. Chaplain Harris was new, he brought his friends from Fort Belvoir.

Our chaplain on Fort Bragg testifies. He's not here today.

He testified how his chaplains invited him to come to the temple. He has an incredibly beautiful testimony. He came all the way up and helped us out.

That’s Chaplain Saxton and Fort Bragg. These incredibly beautiful experiences, in fact, I think I’ve got Chaplain Harris up here, hopefully, I don’t embarrass him, but he is up in this one in his military uniform with the folks that, that he brought.

I can't tell you what it was like to be in the temple when these of many different faiths came to learn about us.

I was in the endowment room doing a tour with this, with the Walter Reed chaplains, and I got to take many of them through the temple and to sit there in an endowment room and have them ask me,

“Sister Wagenbach, please tell us, if one of your servicemen is sitting in Walter Reed Hospital, what do I do for them?”

I mean, imagine what I felt to have these people wanting to know how to help us, and for me to testify and say, “Well, my heart draws to my Father in Heaven when I’m sick, so I want a blessing. They’re going to want a blessing.” And to have them then ask me about the priesthood and how I feel about the priesthood and my testimony. Because they wanted to ask me. They were like, “Well, how do I go find the priesthood, and how do I find people who can do blessings?” I mean, what an amazing experience to have in the endowment room for me to be able to testify to these chaplains who wanted to help us. And this group up here, that was one of our last chaplains, I think, um,

I think, General Taylor, one of your chaplains, is in there, he’s in that group, yeah. We had an amazing experience in the sealing room, and one of them had been out here, I think, on a family history tour. So we asked about family history and we were up there having this this interfaith experience in the sealing room. It was incredible. We were there for a long time. And for the tall one back there, he’s Roman Catholic chaplain,

he caught me afterwards as we were walking out and he told me that, you know, he's like, you know what? I have a really good relationship with our LDS chaplains. We have so much respect for each other when I've served. So whoever it was in here that served with them, if it was any of you,

just know how much respect he shared. Okay? This experience was so moving for me, and I got to thank every single one of them and say thank you for your service and defending religious freedom. And brothers and sisters, I say that to you today: thank you for your service and defending religious freedom. It is beautiful. It is so beautiful. And to feel that spirit in there testify of that experience is something I cannot

I will never forget. Thank you for your part in that. So President Oaks, you may have read about this at a Catholic conference in Rome, he said, “I call for a global effort to defend and advance the religious freedom of all the children of God in every nation of the world.” And he gave four ways, if you remember that, he said, Unite and find common ground to defend and promote religious liberty.

Let the world know the good that religion does. Recognize that we need each other and are all subject to law, and urge religious tolerance.

He said, and I love this quote. He said, “Religious freedom is as much a duty towards others as it is a right for oneself.” And I love this right here. “We gain freedom by supporting the freedom of those we deem to be our adversaries. And when we see that our interests are tied to the interests of everyone else, then the real work of religious freedom begins.”

You know, the United States military and for those of you that aren't chaplains of the military, I include this. This is our country. This is our government that is part of the United States military. And so while I say this, while we're talking about this today, this is for everybody. You know, the United States military recognizes the importance. I was so moved by this experience in the temple. I went to my colleague at my, my—the the Armed Forces Chaplain Board is,

the director, is in my division at the Pentagon. And I went down and sat next to the director, Chaplain Marlowe, And I just sat down and I'm like, thank you for sending your chaplains. Thank you for sending them to learn about us and our Church. And I just asked him, I got to talk to him and this is what he gave me of how he defines spirituality. And I know every service has their own, but, you know, it’s recognized, we need spirituality. And I know you know that.

My great-uncle was a chaplain. And I'm just going to do a couple more thoughts and then I’m going to turn it over to

Eric Baxter. But I love, this is from my great-uncle. He was a chaplain in World War II. And I’ve got this 500-page diary from my, from my LDS chaplain in World War II. And it is amazing to read what he dealt with, but I love what he said here. So these four brethren were the chaplains he worked with, and he was in Europe. And one of them, Chaplain Clark, made an appeal for individual contribution. He emphasized that our true Christianity required every man to make a contribution to church and civic organizations and to a vocation that could only be done after a man prepares something to offer.

I love what these chaplains were teaching, that you need to be able to give to the community. I love this one just for the sake that this is Deseret News and they’re, “Our Church is highly respected by all the chaplains we come in contact with. They are amazed we can conduct services the way we do.” I just love that article.

We know. We know that religion is important to readiness and to the Department of Defense, and we know religious, religion is important. I think Governor Cox did a beautiful job of explaining that today. So just by way of ending, my, this is my, my, my great-uncle here, Eldin Ricks.

And as the war was ending in 1945, he wrote this letter. So at this point, he had started this, these letters that he was writing out to all the servicemen. So this was out to all the servicemen in Europe at this time. And imagine that I've got 400 pages of just him struggling through the war with everyone else and all the heartache

and everything they dealt with. And I just want to read you his plea

for defending religious freedom that came from our chaplain from World War II. The plea that he gave as the war was closing. And he said, “Greetings to you in all parts of Europe,” and these, of course, are all the servicemen coming from this chaplain,

“for you are now scattered all over the continent. Your latest success is indeed encouraging

and we anxiously await news of final victory. We have anticipated this victory day so long that it hardly seems possible that it is so near.

The joy experienced at cessation should be expressed in gratitude and thanksgiving, rather than as frivolous,

undignified action that may spoil the joyous relief that will mean the realization of many things we have longed for these many months.” Now he goes on a little bit, of course, because, of course, he’s paying tribute to the much difficulty he, and pain he sees around him as a chaplain. He's trying to live.

So he was trying to make sure everyone stayed aware of that. But while this was happening, they were talking about the work in California was going on to try to make sure they could keep peace. And he says, “Everyone thinks that this is the job of statesmen, to keep peace.” And I kind of associate that with what Governor, what Governor Cox said today, actually, what I’m about to read. He said, “There is little that we personally can do, but surely this is false and dangerous and it might be well to use this memorial month,” so this was May 1945, “to decide our job in effecting a lasting peace.” And these were just the suggestions this chaplain had.

He said, “We could now form the right attitude, a positive one that expresses that definitely this is the last war.

This will require a faith in humanity and conviction of the truthfulness of our cause.”

He also said, “Community is the place where all peace plans begin, your community.” He said, “There is in existence, in your community, a church

and state organization, through which schemes and plans may be effected.” And finally, “You must be an influence and accept the responsibility of the functions of your church and state.

Dictators have risen because they have done the job created by our negligence. [And] as we pause between our victory here and transferring to our other enemy,

we should make certain that the cost of war has left an indelible impression. The cause for which our brothers and sisters have died must endure,

long live their memory.” And I know, joining with the call that President Oaks has for us to defend religious liberty, I, I offer this plea from my great- uncle, the chaplain in World War II.

President Oaks said this, “As Jesus taught, ’Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father, which is in heaven.’”

“As more of our service genuinely benefits society and is clearly motivated by our religious beliefs, this will be recognized by the general public.”

I want to testify of the spirit I felt both in the temple of the work and the testimony that that I saw in that temple when the spirit emanated from the temple and the part that our chaplains played there that day. And I offer these words for you in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. (Audience) Amen.

Brothers and sisters, it’s a great honor to be with you. I have deep respect for the work you do. I've been representing members of the military for the last 11 years, defending their religious liberty.

I'm an attorney at the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty.

We are somewhat of a unique organization that we represent people of all faiths to defend their sincere religious beliefs. When we were first founded, our first case, Rigdon v. Perry, involved a Catholic, a Jewish, and a Muslim chaplain, protecting,

defending their right to speak freely to their congregations. When the administration at the time was trying to stop them from talking about a politically sensitive issue. And we prevailed in that case, and we’ve been devoted ever since to defending the rights of military members, among others. We like to say that we literally represent people from A to Z.

We've represented Anglicans and Zoroastrians, and we’ve, we’ve tried to hit every letter of the alphabet and

so we truly appreciate and align with the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and seeking to allow every person to worship God as they please and according to the dictates of their own conscience.

I want to, I just have a few minutes, I'm going to give you just a crash course of some of my experiences and some thoughts on religious liberty. Okay, thanks.

This is Simrat Pal Singh, or Simmer Singh, he was a captain in the Army when I met him. He grew up in Bellevue, Washington. He immigrated with his father, who came seeking asylum after persecution of Sikhs in India in the, in the early 1980s. He grew up just an all-American kid, wrestling, student body council member,

except that from age 14, he had a beard that could compare to no one else. No one else could compare to.

He never thought much about it. He just wanted to join the Army as an infantryman. But when he was serving on the student council as a junior,

a friend who was a senior ahead of him told him about an opportunity to go to West Point and said, “You should try this.” For an immigrant kid, he had little confidence that he would be able to do it, but he thought he would give it a try. And step by step, doors opened.

He just always assumed that this was America, he would be able to maintain his beard. For Sikhs,

one of their five core articles of faith is that they never cut any of the hair on their body as a reminder that God's creation is perfect. Men in particular wear their hair, unshorn hair in a turban, and their beards often tied close to their face. But they don't ever shave their beards.

So all through high school, he had never been to a barber. He never owned a razor or anything like that.

His recruiter kept telling him, yeah, I’m sure something will work out. Just, you know, one step at a time. I guess you’ve met recruiters before, (Audience laughter) and he trusted that everything would be fine.

He showed up for R-Day at West Point and stood in line to get his shoes and his pants and his shirt. And then the last stop was the barber chair,

where he was told he either had to shave or go home.

And I feel emotional because I've felt the emotion as he's told this story.

As an eight-year-old kid who had been taught his whole life that he had a duty, a religious duty to serve his country and defend others, and also to never abandon his God, that here he was placed in a situation where he had to choose between not just his desire to serve,

but a religious desire to serve and a religious desire to honor God. And he chose in that moment to go ahead and shave, and to have his hair shorn.

The woman who was cutting his hair didn't know what was going on, but she could tell it was a very traumatic experience for him, and so she offered to braid his hair for him and save it for him in a plastic bag. He carried that with him

for the next ten years as a reminder to himself that he needed to return to God.

He went on to serve in Afghanistan. He was awarded a Bronze Star Medal for Valor, and he both was, he led a troop, a platoon there, clearing IEDs from roads and saw combat, became an Army ranger,

went on to get a master's degree through the Army in engineering.

At that point, he ran into three Sikhs at the Pentagon at a Vaisakhi or New Year celebration, who were in full beard and turban. And he said, how were you able to do this? And they explained that they had been given a special exemption because of their language and medical skills that were in high demand.

It turns out that Sikhs have served in our United States military since at least the World War I. One of them even served as a gas mask instructor

and which is a common complaint we get about the beards with gas masks. In 1981, after

during the Reagan administration, there was a desire to tighten discipline in the military. And so the grooming and uniform standards were enforced more rigorously. Those Sikhs who were already serving were allowed to, were grandfathered in. But no new Sikhs were admitted for nearly 30 years until these three gentlemen that he ran into at the Pentagon had gotten a special exception.

He came to ask, came to us and asked if we would represent him in getting the right to wear his, to wear his articles of faith.

And so we started the process of negotiating with the Army.

And that’s a long story I won’t go into, but eventually, they told him he was going, he was allowed to wear his beard and turban temporarily. He was told—I remember this because it was the night before my son was leaving on his mission—

he was told he was going to be taken to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds to be tested individually for his helmet

and mask fit. And we protested that if there was going to be a study, it should be a legitimate scientific study and not using a lab rat of one to really look for an excuse to to deny him the right to,

to serve. We ran into court two mornings later, and it turns out that just by random chance, his platoon was going through the gas chamber that day, just for a routine gas mask test. So here I am in court trying to argue that he should be able to wear his beard and turban and thinking, please let his, his test come out right.

And true to form, he, he had no problem with the seal. We were able to tell the judge right there that he had just passed a test.

And through a series of events, the Army eventually settled the case and agreed that in almost all situations, Sikhs can serve with their articles of faith in place.

And there have now been over 106 serving honorably in the military.

He went on a short while later to be, to teach at West Point, where

we also represented two Sikhs for the opportunity to, to serve at West Point with their articles of faith. There we again had to file a lawsuit. The military insisted that they could serve at West Point,

except when they put on the old gray line uniform that they would have to shave and take off their turbans for that experience.

It's hard for people to understand how it could be so serious to shave your,

you know, to shave, or to remove your turban. But for a Sikh, being asked to remove your turban in public is like being asked to parade in your underwear in public. And so it's a very you know, most of these young men, only their families have ever seen their hair. And it’s a very sacred, many Sikhs throughout history have chosen martyrdom over shaving their heads or removing their turbans. And so there’s a strong and deep,

if you walk into their gurdwaras—temples, the walls are full of pictures of military

Sikhs. They consider themselves to be saint-soldiers in their faith who chose martyrdom over, over forced conversion through shaving. So it was a very deep, deep, deeply held belief and tradition.

He, we eventually were able to prevail for these two new

cadets to serve at West Point, and he had been assigned to teach there and had the honor of swearing them in to the military service. And so it was a really sweet story of how he was able to, as he said, no longer have to live two lives in the military, that he could be his true self. True to both his God and his desire to serve his country. I know a lot of you are still thinking about gas masks and beards, and I won't go into details about that, but there are a lot of ways that they're able to serve without

implicating safety issues.

One thing I wanted to mention is that through this process and for many of our service members, when we're representing them for their religious freedom,

often their only friend is the chaplain.

There's no one in their in their platoon or in their chain of leadership who understands or is sympathetic,

but their chaplain is always by their side to help them through the process and to give them the benefit of the doubt and to do what they can. And so I want to thank you

for that service that you give to people of all faiths.

And you have an incredible opportunity in your positions as chaplains to do a great work for people of all faiths, and, and people of no faith. And I love that concept. I don't know if it's everywhere described,

but I think it's perform and provide that you will perform sincerely the rituals of your own faith and you'll provide a way for others to have access to their faith.

I think that is a beautiful principle of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

We sometimes forget how generous our Heavenly Father's plan of salvation is.

I think as a young man, when I would read in 1 Nephi 14:10 about there’s say, only two churches, the Church of the Lamb and the church of the devil, I saw that very narrowly. And as I’ve matured in the Gospel and come to know people of other faiths, I can see how the Lord sees His church as encompassing all those who seek to do good.

Some of them are not yet baptized into His Church.

Some of them are baptized and still have misunderstandings.

But all those who are seeking to do good are a part of our Heavenly Father’s restored Gospel and His plan,

the plan of salvation for all of His children. And it's a beautiful experience that we have in serving people of all faiths and that you have in serving peoples of people of all faiths to help them

progress toward their heavenly home.

Congress has spoken a lot recently about the need for greater attention to religious liberty. I’m just going to flip through a few of the things that have,

well I guess my early version of the of the, of my PowerPoint made it, not my new one, so I’m just going to, I’ll just talk through some of these. In 2000,

in 2012, in the NDAA, Congress has frequently speaks on issues of religious freedom through the

the National Defense Authorization Fund.

In fiscal year 2012, they recognized the right of military chaplains who do not wish to perform marriages, to only perform marriages that are consistent with their own faith.

In 2013, they recognized the right of individual service members to express their faith. Initially, in 2013,

the law said that the armed forces shall accommodate the beliefs of a member of the armed forces. And the next year it was amended to say the armed forces shall accommodate the individual expression of belief of a member of the armed forces. That's an extremely small but very important change in the law, that our Constitution protects not just our ability to believe,

but also our ability to exercise our belief.

Of course, in the military there are always issues of readiness,

unit cohesion, good order, and discipline. But as much as possible, we should be looking to protect the right of those, of individuals to express and live out their faith.

In 2016 again, and the fiscal year 2016 NDA, NDAA. Congress recognized the importance of religious diversity and recognizing the important roles that Christians, Hindus, Jewish service members, Muslims, and Sikhs, non-denominationals and even non-practicing, and others, how they contribute through their faith to the strength of the armed forces. And then most recently, in 2021, Congress instructed the secretary of defense to implement training on relevant federal statutes regarding religious liberty, including the Department of Defense Instruction 1300.17, which adopts the standard that is applied to military service members who are seeking religious accommodations.

So if you’re not familiar with DODI 1300.17,

it's a great place to start to understand what what the obligations of the military are, what obligations the military has taken upon itself to recognize the religious freedom of, of, of service members. And each of the branches has adopted their own set of regulations that also incorporate that standard. And I'll talk about that here in a minute.

The Religious Freedom Restoration Act is the leading statute in the United States that governs these types of issues and is the standard that has been adopted by DODI 1300.17

as well in the various branch regulations. It was passed after a law,

the Supreme Court issued a decision basically saying that the Free Exercise Clause of the United States Constitution does not protect you if your religion is violated by a law that is neutral and generally applicable.

That is, as long as the law was not passed to target religion and as long as it more or less affects everybody the same, the court said you don’t have a First Amendment claim, even if that law quashes your religion. So consider, for example, prohibition. If there had been a law, it wasn't passed to target religion.

It was passed for other reasons. It applied pretty generally. If that law had just said no alcohol sales in the United States, it wouldn’t matter, under this ruling, if the Catholic Church couldn’t get wine for the sacrament, because the law was neutral and generally applicable. And the court said the Constitution doesn't protect against anything more

than non-neutral and non-generally applicable laws.

And the Court just said, well, if you want an exception, just go ask Congress, which works if you are a, you have power and ability to move Congress. But if you're a minority religious faith,

of course, you’re the one who is most likely unintentionally to have laws

that rub up against your religion or even suppress your ability to live out your freedom.

When that law was passed,

there was outrage across the political spectrum on the left and the right.

Everybody thought that was wrong. Previously, the court had held that whenever a law substantially burdened a sincere religious belief, it was the government's burden to show that it had a compelling interest,

why it could not accommodate a, grant a religious accommodation.

And so RFRA was passed in reaction to that decision because so many people were outraged by it in a, what would be today an unimaginable showing of bipartisanship.

This law passed in Congress one hundred—or I’m sorry, it passed unanimously in the House, and it passed 97 to 3 in the Senate. And the opposing votes were a Republican,

a Democrat, and an Independent. So it was, it was as bipartisan as you could get. It was signed into law by President Clinton, sponsored by Senators Hatch and Senator Kennedy in the Senate.

And this law returned the what everyone had previously understood to be the constitutional standard, that if the government puts a burden on your religious faith

and your sincere religious faith, once you show that you're sincere and that your faith is burdened,

then it's the government's obligation to show a compelling government interest

why it cannot grant you a religious accommodation.

And, you know, typically a compelling government interest would be something like national security, or threats to health and safety,

or something along those lines. That would truly be a justification why the government could, could step in to, to suppress someone’s religious beliefs.

As I mentioned, this law is, has been adopted by all of the branches of the military. You may have heard

that RFRA is a blank check for religious people or a license to discriminate against others. That is not true.

RFRA is very clearly a balancing test that requires the government just to meet a high standard before it can suppress your religion. But sometimes it will be able to do that because of the compelling interests that are at stake.

As chaplains, however, you know, most decisions in the military are made at the command level.

And, and as I understand it, JAG officers don't usually advise below a certain level, maybe the brigade level, I'm not sure. But, and so there are a lot of commanders who are making decisions about religious accommodations, who really don't understand what the religious standards are, what their legal obligations are. And they're also very concerned about the media implications. There are organizations like the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, which is a military version of the Civilian Freedom from Religion Foundation that looks for any manifestation of religion in public life and and threatens to bring lawsuits. So if you're a commander and they see that there is a Christmas tree somewhere, or there’s been some religious activity,

someone accuses someone of proselytizing, they’re quick to jump in. And the natural impulse of a commander is to just try to like quiet things down and to move forward. And so it's important to have people around the commander who understand what the religious liberty obligations are of the military and to protect the rights of those individuals who are sincerely trying to live out their faith, even if it's, you know, might end up on Fox News sometime.

So the RFRA standard is really the main one of the main tests to understand, and when you think, consider my example of Simmer saying was he sincere in his religious belief? Yes. His entire life, he had maintained a beard and turban for religious reasons. He did shave,

but it’s, it’s inherent in most religions that people make mistakes, that they backslide, they make decisions under pressure that may be contrary to their faith, but that doesn't impact their sincerity. And so being able to assess, I know it’s the chaplain's role often in these situations to assess the service member's sincerity. And so you have the opportunity to be the ally

for your service members in that first role. Was it a substantial burden for him to shave? Yes. Any time you're forced to do something that is contrary to your faith, the substantial burden is met.

Now, what was the compelling government interest? Interestingly, in the, in Captain— now Major—Singh’s case,

the military asserted interest in uniformity,

that if there wasn't this type of uniformity, that there couldn't be the necessary esprit de corps among members of the troop or the platoon

for our West Point graduates, that somehow having the disturbance in the uniformity of the bucket hat in the old gray uniform, was just something the military couldn’t cave in.

There is a long history, of course, there are many times when the military, because of the unique work and the national security interests,

there are many times when the government does have a compelling interest. But there is also a long history in these cases of the military asserting national interest concerns

or even just uniformity concerns, saying that those uniformity concerns are so important eventually to national security that courts have frequently found the military to overreach on those claims. And so it's important, I think, when you’re advising on these issues, to take a real objective perspective and to provide a voice for those who are seeking to exercise their faith, to ask, is this really that big of a deal if we allow, if we accommodate our fellow Americans who want to serve as much as we do, but have unique religious practices that are less understood or are not part of the culture and thus rub into government regulations.

And then, even if you have a compelling government interest, for example, let’s,

a better example might be the safety risks of having wearing a mask with a beard, is denying someone the ability to serve or forcing them to shave really the least restrictive means of protecting the government interest?

Now, it turns out that often, even on safety concerns, there are many ways for people to continue serving

and often with no difference.

For example, on Navy ships,

sailors mostly use positive pressure masks and the risk of, there’s very low risk that a beard will introduce any threat to life or safety that’s any different than the inherent risks in having a mask that isn’t perfectly fitted to your face or, face, or individualized for you. And so there are lots of issues and ways to think through how to, what are the risks that are just inherent in the military, and does allowing someone to exercise their faith really introduce a new risk?

Just to wrap things up. The Free Exercise Clause, as I mentioned the, the legal issues under the Free Exercise Clause are a little bit complicated, but the same RFRA test can apply if you show that a law is not neutral or generally applicable. So if the military is making exceptions, for example, with beards and masks, the military, there were, you know, when the first Army case was brought, they were at the time, you know, 100,000 soldiers who had medical beards and were still allowed to serve. And so when you have exceptions to a law,

then you get to go on to the same standard where it's the government's,

it becomes the government's burden to show that they can't accommodate you.

Another issue that often comes up is are issues under the Establishment Clause, which traditionally you’ve maybe thought about around Christmastime. Can there be a Christmas tree with Christmas cards on it in the V.A. hospital? Can there be carolers come in, these types of Christmas war issues? Can there be a war memorial that has religious symbols on it for many years, under a test called the Lemon Test,

the Supreme Court said that you would ask whether a reasonable person or the reasonable observer would feel like they were being excluded because of the of the complained-of activity.

So you can imagine there were as many reasonable observers as there are judges in the United States. And so some judges, literally on the Supreme, on the same day in the United States Supreme Court,

the justices issued a ruling upholding a Ten Commandments monument in Texas on the courthouse grounds and striking down a Ten Commandments monument in a Kentucky courthouse. And so there was just extensive confusion, which you may have felt in the military, where there’s a lot of confusion about what, how much religion can be allowed.

In the last three or so years, the Supreme Court has abandoned that test, and

said under the Establishment Clause, first of all, as long as there's no denominational discrimination,

as long as everyone has access to express their religion at appropriate times and appropriate places, then there’s no Establishment Clause violation. And the court will look to history and tradition to see were these really things that the Founders considered to be an establishment of religion, or are these natural manifestations of religion that have always been a part of our tradition? So if you consider, for example, legislative prayer, the court has repeatedly held that prayers in public meetings are not a violation of the Establishment Clause.

Again, as long as there's opportunity for all to participate and no denominational discrimination or disparagement of religion or non-religion, then these manifest natural manifestations of religion as a people, when we celebrate together, when we worship together, when we mourn together, these are consistent with the Establishment Clause. So I will close there. But just want to again, thank you.

You know, our Church leaders have frequently, in recent years, advised us to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with people of other faiths in standing up for religious liberty. And you have a wonderful opportunity to do that by becoming informed about the legal obligations the military has to respect the religious freedom of all service members and helping them to be true and faithful to their own religious traditions. And as we do that, we help all people draw closer to our Heavenly Father. And I leave you this testimony in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. (Audience) Amen. (Applause)